EP 192 – Rajiv Malhan – Head of Strategic Projects & Business Transformation at Aditya Birla Sun Life Insurance – If You Are Not Able to Touch Base With Your Customer Then You Are Going Out


Michael Waitze worked in Global Finance for more than 20 years, employed by firms like Citigroup, Morgan Stanley and Goldman Sachs, primarily in Tokyo.  Michael lived and worked in Tokyo from February 1990 until December 2011.  Michael always maintained a particular focus on how technology could be used to make businesses more efficient and to drive P/L growth. Michael is a leader in the digital media space, building one of the biggest and fastest-growing podcast listener bases in the region.  His AsiaTechPodcast.com show has listeners in more than 170 countries and his company, Michael Waitze Media produces some of Asia’s most popular podcasts.

Rajiv Malhan

Rajiv is strategic and tech-savvy leader with 20+ years of progressive experience in conceptualizing and implementing Business & Digital Transformation strategies. He works closely with the Executive Leadership Team and Business Heads across various department in Insurance Domain to develop digital & business transformations roadmap. He also collaborates and strategies to ensure, transformational initiatives are fully integrated to organisational objectives and customer expectations. He is an expert in solving complex business problems across the organization impacting revenue, cost and customer experience by crafting simplified journeys through digital tools. He is the recipient of the Aditya Birla Group Chairman's Award in the Distinguished Achievers category and also awarded with the “Most influential 50 Quality professional” for India from World Quality Congress. Being an expert in his field, he is invited as a Keynote Speaker at Various Forums to conduct sessions on emerging technologies in, Customer experience, Customer engagement strategies, Medical underwriting, Longevity-Bio Markers-Facial scans, Gamification of services, Metaverse in Insurance domain and Simplified Customer Journeys, etc. He is Post graduate in commerce, MBA, Associate of Insurance Institute of India and also earned an ‘Artificial Intelligence for Leaders’ certificate from Great Lakes Institute of Management in collaboration with University of Austin in 2020.

The Asia InsurTech Podcast spoke with Rajiv Malhan, the Head of Strategic Projects and Business Transformation at Aditya Birla Sun Life Insurance, about customer expectations today and how insurers can pleasantly surprise customers by predicting their wants and needs. 

Here is the transcript of our conversation.

Michael Waitze  0:04  

Hi, this is Michael Waitze and welcome back to the Asia InsurTech Podcast. Today we are joined by Rajiv Malhan, the head of strategic projects and business transformation at Aditya Birla Sun Life Insurance. Rajiv, it is great to have you on the show. How are you doing today?

Rajiv Malhan  0:19  

Thank you so much, Michael. Thanks for taking me on the show. Before we start the show, let me can read that to you. I’m a big fan of yours. And I’m listening all your podcasts and trying to have and let me tell you, I tried my level best to you know, create the kind of voice you have. It’s a very rich baritone voice I most appreciate the way you talk. I’m sure this will be fun. It’s a fact.  I was listening today morning also. I was listening one of your podcasts with James Benham. Yeah, so the way you’re talking, I think it was nice. The way James was also talking, it was great. So at the time, I was thinking what exactly I’m gonna talk to you about. And I was trying that if I can have seen kind of rich wise, which you’re trying to have. But sorry, you are the boss.

Michael Waitze  1:13  

So let’s, let’s just start this off with and we’d like to do this for everybody actually, like what do you think is the biggest trend? Or even emerging trend? In insurance and InsurTech? Let’s just start with India if you want, but we can go to the whole world, right? Because I don’t think it’s that far away. To be fair.

Rajiv Malhan  1:29  

I agree with you. So let me tell you, as I mentioned to you that I try not to prepare anything mentioned to you it will be all impromptu, I will try to have a discussion. But I got this question earlier when I was listening to James in the morning. I think if you ask me, Michael, then I don’t think so there is only one trend, which is going the way we are in the technology right now, the way insurance space is improving, as well as the new technologies coming. Or it’s not a one trend which is going to be there are various trends, which we are working specifically, which I would say in insurance. And then there are there are many people who are working on various things. But one trend, which is always gonna be there, and it was there earlier it is right now it is going to be in the future also. That’s the customer, the focus on customer has increased big time. And I would say not only in insurance, per se, but across people are trying to give a better customer experience faster. Hyper personalised, customised. And I think the new trend, which is going to be it’s a predictive piece, before customer realises that, okay, he has a need, then can we be there and convey back to customer? Okay, this is something which you probably be expecting? Can we service that?

Michael Waitze  2:50  

So how does technology play a role? Because you bring up some really good points, right? If it’s customer focus, but it’s also predictive, right? What does the customer want? What do they need? How can we anticipate that in a way, right? It’s like a great waiter, and you’ve been to their restaurant before you sit down with your family, they come over and say, you know, the last time you were here, you had x, but now we have this new thing. I think you’ll like this, too. Like how does tech play a role in getting that level of service? You mentioned hyper personalization down to the customers that really want that.

Rajiv Malhan  3:18  

Let me take you to I’m not sure. Have you seen the movie Ratatouille? There was an animation movie, it was there where that one rat is becoming a chef. You have seen this movie? 

Michael Waitze  3:29  

A long time ago. I think I actually saw it in the theatre just to you know, go ahead. Yes,

Rajiv Malhan  3:33  

So in the end, the critique, which comes into play, and once he has done all the stuff done, then the waiter asks him like, Okay, what do you want the only line which sticks to me until now, he says, surprise me? Yeah. Right. Yeah. So as of now, customer is ready to be surprised. Customer wants to be surprised customer wants, how you can surprise him as to how you can take further to the step. So whatever, let’s suppose if he is given some query, he’s given some requests. And you’re closing those requests and those queries within that that’s a given right? That’s given there’s nothing new wow experience, which is coming out to be right, is there something which you can serve to customer which He has not as of now asked for? So there are various things let’s suppose if you asked me what exactly so for example, in insurance, customers are asking various things. For example, it’s a text statement she’s asking for, or he’s asking for account statement, or he’s making some query he’s making some requests, can we go to that level where a customer is not asking and we are aware about from past experience, okay, these kinds of customers are asking tech statement at this moment. Can we proactively provide those ones? Can we provide those account statements in I would say, without asking that customer can we fulfil some of his next best needs which is asking for Can we go Go back and reach back to him. So, I think these are some things which we are also working and this is antics which is available, the kind of data which is available nowadays. And then the data which is available on social media that is also helping. So, for example, let’s suppose Michael is, especially as the policy earlier, so now Michael is not married, right. And now, if we come to know, then can we go back to Michael. Okay, now your responsibility is increased. So do you want to increase your risk? Now? Must Michael is blessed with a son? So can we go back without Michael coming back to us? Do you want to, you know, increase the risk? Or maybe earlier, you have nominated your father? Do you want to nominate your wife right now? I think these are the very basic things which I’m talking to, there are various more things, which or insurer or I would say any of the service provider should reach back to customer and provide him all these things.

Michael Waitze  5:55  

So do you look at other businesses, right? Because you’ve mentioned other places as well. And this is something I think about a lot? Do you look at other businesses outside of the insurance industry and think we need to use that user experience as a reference point, and then bring that experience into the insurance world so that that UX or user experience becomes better here? And then gets personalised? Not just personalised for me per se, but customised for insurance per se. Does that make sense?

Rajiv Malhan  6:24  

You’re very right. Nowadays customer is not expecting you to behave as insurer. Customer is expecting degree he’s been given the experience for example, all the Ubers which are coming all the pizza which are coming, so customers are expecting that okay, if I’ve ordered a pizza, and I’m able to see the entire journey, customer journey of a pizza, we’re just coming into why can’t I have the same journey for life insurance product, if customer is asking that okay, if pizza can be delivered within 30 minutes? Why can’t the policy be issued within the same day? If most of the things can be done without paper? Why should I need to give you a paper about it? So hospitality, I think has spoiled customers. So whenever customer goes into any any hotel, or restaurant, or when he wants to say if he had stayed earlier, so probably you will go there and he will ask you, mister, last time he stayed in room number 309. Do you want to you know, stay in the same room you want to, you know, go somewhere else. I think that’s something I’m sure the kind of you know, sparkle in your eyes, which has come right now let’s suppose if somebody is sitting in front of you and giving all this stuff, how delighted you will be.

Michael Waitze  7:31  

So I want to give you an example of this. Right? I smiled because you reminded me of something. And I want to share with you what this is years ago, I came to Thailand to stay at the Oriental in Bangkok, which was a super reasonable place to stay but gave five star service and they always put me into the same room, which I loved. I never could figure out how they did that. And then one day, it was like a butler on every floor. And that dude just remembered my name and remembered my wife’s name and remembered my daughter’s name. And I could not figure out how that guy was so effective at this. And then one day I needed something urgently. So I walked down to his station and I kind of peeked my head in. And they had come up with a system, they actually had a picture of all of a picture of us Yes, and our names there. And it just blew me away the level of service, right? Like they went that far. Every time we came to put up a new picture of us and put up our names. And it was always on the 12th floor. I think it was like 1209. But I just remember that level of personalization thinking it didn’t in a way it didn’t matter what the price was for that because I couldn’t get that anywhere else. And once I saw it, I couldn’t unsee it. And then I had to think about that in the context of every other service I got and just wondered, why isn’t everybody else doing this? Does that make sense?

Rajiv Malhan  8:41  

Amazing, I would say technology is available, all this knowledge is available. For example, as you mentioned, they would have picked up your picture and picture of your wife as well as for your daughter. And they have put their names over there. So whenever you go to any class so they will have your picture available, they will have your name available and they will take with your name they will talk to you with your name see the kind of experience you have got at the time. And after that also after so many years, it still sticks to your mind that is customer service. I would say that is not a customer service. I would say that’s a customer experience those guys have given to you. And if you ask me what is the definition of customer experience? I would say the kind of experience which our organisation has given to you which has not fulfilled your need that is for sure that’s given it as fulfil your need. But yes, it is stick to your mind you make it as a reference point wherever you want. I think that is something where organisations have to reach or I will not talk about only who are the insurers I would say so because I work in insurance, but I worked in inequality department also business excellence also. So where we try to convey that how the customer service can be increased how the customer’s experience can be enhanced. So I would say it’s a wonderful example.

Michael Waitze  9:54  

Do you think about this sometimes when you’re out and about in your regular life and you think either a I’ve just had a great day perience How can I make that part of my own businesses customer experience? Or on the flip side? That was terrible? Do you know what I mean? Like, are you thinking about this, even when you’re outside the office? To the extent where you think, Okay, that was great, I need to have a conversation internally, because there’s got to be a way we can do that thing, whatever that experience was that I just had in our business as well.

Rajiv Malhan  10:21  

Absolutely, absolutely. So this is an example I want to give you one anecdote. I’m not sure which organisation it belongs to. But whenever we are talking to our customer service executives, or we are talking to our internal meetings, we always mentioned this kind of anecdote, I think it goes like this, there was a there was two people who are sitting in outline, so the plane was not started till that night, and this person was talking about insurance. It’s an insurance policy in your organisation. And this is a problem which I am facing, and nobody is able to, you know, handle it out right now. So I’m not sure I’ve been to everyone. So I’m not sure what the concern is. So this the executive who was listening to that, he said, Okay, let’s let the plane land, we’ll try to figure it out what the concern is, so they say, as soon as the plane lands at the time, the customer gets the message that okay, your problems resolved, because this guy was the executives there. He ensured though he is not handling that particular department, which the problem belongs to. But he ensured that, okay, there’s a customer, who is my customer, my organization’s customer, if he’s having any concern, then he should be dealt with the kind of concern which is having. And if he’s not happy with us, the kind of service recovery, which you make, that’s something which is very, very important. We can all make errors, we can all falter all technologies like that, okay, at any given point of time customer is expecting something else, and you are able to provide something else. But the kind of service recovery, which you make, I think that is how customer stays with you. This is how the customer stickiness comes with,

Michael Waitze  11:55  

Can you like pull back the curtain a little bit and just maybe give some sense for what those conversations are like, internally? Do you know what I mean? Where, again, this is service recovery, which is a really interesting word, right? Where something has gone wrong, and you want to do or go the extra mile to make sure that that is that that experience becomes better, and that the memory that the customer has supersedes the bad thing that already happened, right? Because the recovery has been so effective. What are those conversations like internally around that idea? And is there a way that like, just to get back to something you mentioned earlier, the technology, the data, and the personalization can come into play there as well.

Rajiv Malhan  12:34  

Okay, because not only the discussions or conversation which happen. Many times leaders have to walk the talk also. So that’s how you’re executors people who are handling the customer, they understand better. So we have made it a point in I would say in order to build a capital. So whenever a leader visits to a front end branch, when a customer comes in, he or she ensures that they will sit to the front desk, they will talk to customers, they will try to understand what the concern is what the problem is what the issue is. So our leaders whenever they come to branches, so they spend time in front desk, they spend time and understand with the front desk guy, okay, what kind of challenges what kind of issues you have. Apart from that, let me also tell you I’m sitting in, we have a back office is available in Mumbai. So in there also, there’s a desk which is available with a continuous calls going on the call centre, people are calling to different customers, okay, any leader at any given point of time can sit over there and listen to all the calls. That’s another piece for office, which I can say is as leaders, everybody is being given, you know, our list of customers, we talk to every customer, we talk to at least one customer in a week, different customers, different startup society different I would say part of India. So we talk to customer just random, is trying to understand what they’re saying. Because if you’re not able to touch base with the customer, then you’re going up. Yeah, because customer is getting so many experiences and from so many, you know, service organisations that are blind, you cannot just think about that, okay, I’m an inch or I have to just take the premium. And I’ll pay the sum assured whenever like something happens, it cannot be the engagement has to be very, very important. And I think I’m holding you here is one more important point which most of us miss Go ahead. So that is silent customer. What does that mean insurance term? A customer pays a premium every year, right? He or she may come back to us and say that okay, this is my query. This is my request. Or let’s suppose there is my any complaint which is coming out to me, but there are a good number of customers who don’t have inquiry, who don’t have any request and we are sending the messages. We are sending them emails, the knee open, they may not open, but they are paying premiums. Now these customers who are not engaged with us in any of the conversation, they are not opening any party meals, they are not opening any of our messages, one fine day they are off. And we are not able to understand this new data which turns out to be there and confused by that, okay, why this customer is off because we try to engage with them. We know that customer has not opened as soon as this customer has not opened the email. So what are the ways how can we engage with those customers, because it’s a mindshare, which, if you’re mindshare, if your brand value is or branding is not in customer’s mind, whenever he’s purchasing next time, or when he’s purchasing for another family member. He may not, you know, think about you. How can you be there in the mind of the customer consistent that is

Michael Waitze  15:45  

How to do that though, for the silent customers, it’s a really interesting concept, right? Because, like, they’re not giving you any feedback, but you want to get that feedback from them, right? Because at some point, they may just disappear and you won’t even know why.

Rajiv Malhan  15:56  

Yes, you’re right. That’s I’m saying data is available. So we have different propensity models, which we make and we try to understand okay, what kind of customer is going to pay us? What kind of customer is not going to pay us what kind of customer needs some intervention, some nudge that we you mentioned? How do we do it? I think the most important point is are you reaching to the customer, as per his convenience, Gone are those days when we say when we used to say, boss, this is my portal, this is my mobile application. If you have to pay the premium you have to come out there’s nothing you have to reach as per customer convenience, you have to reach wherever he’s comfortable with the simplified experience the engaging experience would be where customer would love to spend time Okay, let’s suppose if I asked Mike, where do you spend most of your time? Let’s suppose if in the whole day let’s suppose if I want to engage with you, you don’t open your emails. I’m not sure if you open up check your email consistently. So let’s suppose if I ask you, if I want to engage with you actually engage with WhatsApp Perfect, perfect. So WhatsApp is the way we want to engage with the customer. So, good timing that we are having this conversation go ahead and let me tell you a few days back four or five days back we have launched we are the global first I would say the meta has still to control but in India, we are sure that okay, we are the first one. We have issued a policy on WhatsApp, which can be purchased entirely on WhatsApp, you start on WhatsApp and you the policy gets instantly issued on WhatsApp there is no paper involved. There is no signatures in Word no conversation, everything on WhatsApp. So this is a global first Michael and you will love to see that. Okay, when Mehta was working with us, they were also equally excited. Oh very, very excited that okay, such a complex journey of life insurance, how are you able to handle within WhatsApp? So you bang on the point that okay, WhatsApp is the way forward conversation has to do with the way forward?

Michael Waitze  17:56  

I was gonna ask you, right. So you work with metadata. This meta obviously owns WhatsApp. So there’s you have to integrate with them and work with their teams to be able to make sure that all this stuff happens that all the data security is there and all this other stuff, right? Yeah. But do you look outside as well? Right? Because we talk a little bit about insurance in the context of insurer tech, do you ever look outside as well, and think we want to build this thing, but that team has already built it? And we could actually interact with an InsurTech that’s done that already? Or are you trying to build everything internally? Do you know what I mean? We used to go through this all time at Goldman Sachs, do we build or do we buy? Or do we build? Or do we partner? And we kind of did all these hybrid models? So I’m curious what that looks like, from your perspective, as well.

Rajiv Malhan  18:37  

I know, I understand that. So InsurTech is becoming a large part of our whole networking, okay, because these guys are actually bringing outside perspective also. So these guys are bringing global experience, they are also bringing technology, because if a person is inside, then he is more busy in handling the behaviours, you know, the business as usual, the normal mundane work is, but I would love to put a caution over here, which is very, very important, which I’m sure rest of the insurers who are listening to this podcast will also vouch with me many times these insurtechs bring about technology, these guys these startups, these are the kids or just you know graduated from our top colleges, and they have founded a technology a huge passion, they have this and that okay, we will be able to do that stuff. And that’s amazing stuff. But the only challenge why do they fail? They don’t listen to what the customer is asking. If you’re able to understand what customer is asking then all the technology will work. You cannot go to customer only because there is something which is technology. Somebody will not purchase a policy because it’s available on WhatsApp a customer will purchase a policy on WhatsApp because he feels it’s a very simplified journey which has been created. There is a need of me which has been simplified and asked to me to be done and to be issued within WhatsApp, right So these guys do come to us, then we have to spend a good amount of time in making the whole stuff working. I think organisations and I would say, so we were there in glove meetings also in outside forums, also, where the Googles Amazon, Microsoft or the board, they’re also acknowledging that we have technology, but the domain experts, people who can make this technology workable for customer, that is something which is in depth. So if people can understand the both hands, if people can understand technology, also people can understand customer also, I think that amazing, simplify journeys, which are still to be crafted.

Michael Waitze  20:41  

So I was reading an article and you make a really good point here, right? I was reading an article by Omar Malik, right? Um, I’m not sure if you know, he is. But a really great writer spent a lot of time in Silicon Valley. And one of the things he says it’s really about Adobe copying some of the stuff that figma and I’m trying to remember the name of this other company, that Canva. And one of the things he said is great incumbents actually, if they want to maintain, and I’m quoting, actually, their preeminence have to be great fast followers, right. And one of the other things that he says is that they don’t necessarily have to invent everything themselves, but the big moat around their business is exactly what you said that connectivity to the customer so that some small company can come up with some killer tech, but at the end of the day, they don’t have the scale of either the customers or the data to get the right insights to be able to implement that in a way that will take customers away from their core competency. Do you see that as well in the insurance industry as well?

Rajiv Malhan  21:32  

Completely with you many times these insurer Tech’s do come back to us, they spend time with us. They show us the presentations are marvellous, amazingly good presentations, all the animations are working fine. So they put a lot of time in integrating those presentations. But whenever they sit on a drawing board with us, then we can read back that okay, this is technology, which is there, but my customer has this, you know, he’s used to this kind of experience, how can we simplify then technology should not confuse customer if you try to put more and more things in our customer side, customer will move out he will just move out. Right. So if you will make the two complex, maybe it’s a very jazzy, very flashy kind of stuff outcome has to come. But if you are not able to give it to the customer in a simplified means it will move up. So I’m not sure if you’re aware about India, there’s a UPI unified payment systems which are happening. So UPI

Michael Waitze  22:29  

is like a transformational thing. It surprises me actually, the government’s or maybe government related entities all over the world have not done because the rails the payment rails, that UPI that’s been put in place in India makes a lot of these transactions so much easier and so much more seamless. And frankly, everyone that has access to a mobile phone now has access to money transfer almost instantaneously. And is the UPI that does that, is that fair?

Rajiv Malhan  22:50  

You’re right, you’re right to come to India. So you go to a small tier three tier four kind of arrange, you will find out that okay, even I would say vegetable vendor, he carries that car over there. Yeah, he is placing all that car. So I was talking to my vegetable vendor, I said, let’s suppose if this is not there, he said, I love him to sell it all. My 80% of payments are coming only to this piece, because this is the ease how you’ve simplified the entire journey earlier people you say that you can even pick up a card, you can have the card and get it done. So I was getting my Samsung phone earlier, Samsung Pay was option where you can store your card. So at the time you were thinking that it is no need to pick up a wallet, because I have a phone, I can get it done. But now that Samsung pays out, so you haven’t just scan and all stuff done. And it’s so easy. This is the journey, which I’m saying which it does journey which I’m trying to figure out. 

Michael Waitze  23:43  

But this brings me back to this question that I always have, right you have this established company, it’s been around for a while the senior executives all kind of end up being around the same age. Right? How do you maintain? I’m super curious about this, right? Because the culture of a company is almost as important as the products that that company is dealing with. Right? And you said earlier, you know the executives can come in and sit in a seat really close and listen to the people the call centre listen to the stuff that they’re doing, listen to the way that they give customer service, right listen to the way they do service recovery. Okay, but but how do you maintain that culture as you hire like a new generation of people that are working at the company that maybe want to work from home that have always been mobile first and don’t know a world where there’s not this digital experience? And don’t understand maybe the importance of that face to face contact? How do you maintain that?

Rajiv Malhan  24:36  

Let me give you a secret about it. So though, we are talking on public forum, but let me give you a secret which I have seen in my organisation, and I’ve seen other organisations also.

Michael Waitze  24:46  

I won’t tell anybody else.

Rajiv Malhan  24:48  

You know, your seniors are talking and our discussion which is if you’re talking only about technology, then the culture is gonna do it is not going to work. When you start your discussion with the customer, when you ask that, okay, whatever you’re talking about, have you talked to any customer? Have you done some pilot somewhere? Have you checked out with some of the distributors? When seniors are asking these kinds of questions, Then whosoever has just joined, whoever has come from entirely different background, he understands that entire conversation entire business revolves around customer, you cannot give us, let’s suppose if you’re doing something where you have not validated with a customer, then that product is bound to fail. Yeah, for sure bound to fail. And one more thing, which is very important, not only the customer, we also involve our front end teams, most of the projects you will see, our branch teams are always involved, because those are the people who will execute. Those are the people who will talk to customers and make them understand this is something which we brought out. And if the work pattern partner to this whole project, then they own it up. Once they own it up, then it’s far more easier to convey that to customers. 

Michael Waitze  26:06  

So Henry Ford famously said, If I asked my customers what they wanted, they would all say they wanted faster horses. Again, tell me where I’m wrong here. But I think a lot of people misinterpret this as don’t ask the customers what they want, because they won’t know. But I think what this really means and again, tell me where I’m wrong is that maybe you’re asking the customer the wrong question. Maybe you should try to figure out what problems they need solved, and then build products that solve those problems for them as opposed to the mean, because because that means you really have to talk to your customers, which seems like what you’re saying, 

Rajiv Malhan  26:36  

That’s partially correct. I would say, I will not say that in the lead on it. Let’s start asking customer many times customers also not aware what he’s looking for. As I mentioned to you that a predictive piece, which I’m telling you, so that’s the reason I’m talking. I’ll give you one more good project, which I have done. I think there’s also industry first kind of stuff. Okay. As you mentioned, I was also part of that project, which I have. So I’m sure you’re aware about net promoter scores are the feedback session we have talked about. So Net Promoter Score NPS, is that, okay? Where you ask customer, the number that love from one to 10? How do you rate? If you ask locally, I would say 10 to 15%. Customers, only can they work? I would say 10 15% is also a little higher number, very less number of people report back to the service very, very less.

Michael Waitze  27:21  

So you’re saying something like between 10 and 15% of people, maybe less than that actually answer the questions that come up and derive the NPS score. Yeah, so go ahead.

Rajiv Malhan  27:32  

Okay, so now the challenges, let’s suppose if I’m not aware, what my customer is proceeding about? Or thinking about me? Or how is waiting, Allah be able to make more, you know, better products or more better experiences. Let’s suppose if I have to talk to him, how would I talk to him? Right, let’s suppose Michael has come to my branch or a call centre? I’m not sure. I need to talk to you, I need to ask you. And many times when you’re talking calling a call centre, I don’t know how much time do you have? So we were facing this kind of stuff. We were facing this kind of concern, then we thought that okay, we need to have one quantified number, which is of a customer without asking customer. Yeah, how would you reach up to that number? So let’s suppose Michael comes to my branch, I should be aware of okay, Miko has this number. For example, he’s at 56 Or is that 86? Or is there a 13 or is 42 There has to be some number, which tells me the relationship level of MIKO the organisation we have named as the relationship quotient, we mentioned it argue. So now how can we find on the side without asking? We take the up all the rock lifecycle journey which will have all the milestones which you have covered for policy lifecycle, in the policy lifecycle, whatever the milestone which you have gone through how you have what is the behaviour in the whole piece? We try to inculcate all that stuff. We put that in algos, we double check that okay, whether that number which is coming for you, do you actually belong to that number? Do you actually let suppose if you have a high IQ, that means this person is interestingly paying in time, he’s engaged with us he’s answering our calls, he is whatever call to action we are sending to him. So he’s doing all that stuff. And let’s suppose if it’s a low IQ customer, then obviously he doesn’t pay in time those policies are getting labs to us, not listening to us and he’s not rewarding to anything. We double check we checked out this we did the relative testing and amazing stuff is coming, what is that? So for every customer we have our cube and with our organisation every customer has one number, which has not been conveyed that to customer because customer doesn’t need that. We have given this number to our front end guys who are able to let suppose if you reach your branch, they will be able to check at which number you are. So if you are at low IQ or a higher IQ then there are perceptions which have been given to was nice. What do you need to talk to him? What do you need to talk to that customer? Now just understand the way you mentioned, there’s a huge attrition, which is going, how do you, you know, ensure that you are giving a right kind of communication to customer. So that particular solution that particular technology is helping us what to convey back to customer. And if that person is having a lower IQ, if he’s having a higher IQ, how do I need to handle them? Apart from this, apart from this, there’s an entire 360 degree view, which has also been given to our front end guy, where he can see for all his contracts, all his policies, what has been done since the inception of the policy. Now, if you’re standing in front of him, this person knows when you appeal the last premium, in one single scheme, talking about when you’re given last query, when you’re going to last complaint, what was the outcome of that complaint? And what is the level of your advisor, how much premium paying how many policies you have, how many have surrendered, how many have paid up. So customer just gets up. So you are able to convey that, okay, this person who isn’t sitting in front of me, he knows each and everything about me. So that’s the Madras level Michika goes out. And I think that’s the retention. That’s That’s how a customer gets attained.

Michael Waitze  31:16  

I want to ask you this, and then I’ll let you go, right? Because it’s been a really super interesting conversation, I always ask this question around, like, how do you make sure that the culture gets maintained for the younger generation for the new people that come in, but I’m just as interested in because you’re doing all these complex and really progressive things, right, particularly as it comes to your IQs, you talked a little bit about NPS, the IQ sounds a little bit more sophisticated, right? Because you do have interactions with all your clients at some level. So you can measure that relationship quotient in a way that maybe is more meaningful than an NPS, right? But how do you convince in a traditional industry people that have been around 1015 20 years, that they also need to adopt new ways of doing things as you build this stuff out? You know, what I mean? So for new people coming in, easy is the wrong word, but in relative terms, it’s okay because they don’t have any background in this, but for people that have been around for a while, what is that conversation like to get them to adopt to new things, whether it’s tech or or or anything really. 

Rajiv Malhan  32:15  

So whenever the discussions are happening, whenever we are having so, we all sit together we try to find out what are new technologies, which So, I am responsible for looking out for the new technologies. So, let me tell you, three days back, I was there in New Delhi. So, there is a global health summit, which has happened, which was been called by government of India. So, we went over there across world. So, people were there, and those are amazing technologies, which have been shown. So, I was really sad the way India is progressing to become a global health leader and these technologies are available and government of India is also putting heart and soul in bringing all these things. So, whenever a new technology comes, so, I came back I share I create back with these technologies, what do we want to see and what kind of problem statements it can solve? Right, once people are able to understand okay, this is a problem statement I have and this is a technology which is available, and it not only makes my life easier, it also makes my customers life yeah, then obviously, the buying comes by itself, because they know that okay, this is the problem statement. If I come over here, this is how this thing can be handled. Apart from this, we also work with the government of Indonesia Pio initiative, which is there which is utterly incubation centre, it’s an incubation centres across. So we also worked with them and again, we try to find out all the problem segments and we hand it over then we get all the startups we talk to the startups and we try to understand what new technologies which are coming in. So technology is become us, I would say bloodline of the whole organisation because without technology, you cannot give a customised, hyper customise and consistent experience to customer, which if you not give you stay traditional, then customers mindshare. Again, I’m telling you the mindshare goes off, I’ve mentioned to you earlier also customer is bombarded with so many technologies across so, customer feels that okay if ABS ally is giving it to me then then amazing, then they would love to stay with us. So one more thing which I want to convey back right now in India, which is a big thing which is going to come that is health, the health parameters the technology which is coming for health as we have seen post COVID also post COVID People are far more relying on technology and now the telemedicine tele consultation is becoming norm now. So people are not hesitating that okay, let’s suppose if I’m sitting in front of customers of a doctor or if I’m sitting in front of a laptop with a doctor is the other side. They are perfectly okay to have the discussion, Stan. And I see in some of the cases they are far more easier because of the traffic and they want to go to the hospital and sit over there. It’s far better if I’m sitting in front of my camera And I’m talking about so many more technologies are gonna count which will digitise your health records. And basically your health records, you will be able to find out more and more ways to, you know, handle customers. In this case we are working on facial scan, the facial scan, I’m not sure if you’re aware about the facials and facial scan is we are working with various, some organisations, which are able to provide your health records health parameters through just looking at a mobile phone, mobile camera. So we are able to get your heart rate your blood pressure, your glucose level, your haemoglobin levels and all that stuff, if you’re able to bring that out. And if you’re able to capture that out without specifically sending someone to a customer, I think that’s also a huge leap frog, which is going to happen in the history of mankind. Because you are able to check each and everybody’s health records health parameters, and you can able to guide him what kind of treatment is required?

Michael Waitze  36:03  

Do you think that there’s going to be in the same way that UPI right has changed the way that financial services can be distributed India, do you think and obviously, with all the proper data, privacy caveats, is there a UPI like service for health data that can also be done so that you can have access to your health data as an individual wherever whenever you want, as opposed to like my mom used to do in a box in the attic? Under a pill? You know, I mean, like it was just silliness. If you had to run upstairs to get us all dusty and stuff. You know what I mean? 

Rajiv Malhan  36:33  

Everything is going to become digitised. That’s why I mentioned to you we were the government of India Global Health digital Summit, which was there. So there is one word which means longevity, the person stays longer, that’s the digital mission, which is EPDM. So we are working with the Government of India officials where they are working in digitising entire one for each road in 1.5 4 billion Indians data, health data to be digitised in next four, five years, they’re trying to have it by 2028. We saw they’re saying that a global digital health for all will be able to provide health services for each and every Indian by 2028. I would say that’s a very, very ambitious mission, they have picked that and that will be possible only through it will be only for technology. And then we as a insurers, health and life insurers will play a very important role there also, because we will be the poor people who will not only collaborate partner, but will also benefit out of it. We will also pick up all the records which are coming into obviously the data privacy has to be there and the customer consent has to be there. If you’re able to make that out. Then customer can be served when customer can be treated well. And again, when you have a huge set of data available then it can be predicted. Yeah, it’s I think this is how the technology is reaching out.

Michael Waitze  37:57  

That is the perfect way to end Rajiv Malhan, the head of strategic projects and business transformation at Aditya Birla Sun Life Insurance. That was awesome. Thank you very much.

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